The WGA and SAG-AFTRA have been on strike since May 2 and July 13, respectively. Both unions are striking for a number of reasons, one of which is artificial intelligence. The technology is still relatively unknown, but the possibilities could prove dire for many professions in Hollywood, including actors and writers. The AMPTP refuses to put protections in place in the new WGA and SAG-AFTRA contracts that satisfy the unions.

Given the mystery that still surrounds artificial intelligence, this can be a confusing issue to comprehend, but many have worked hard to make it more understandable, including members of SAG-AFTRA and the National Association of Voice Actors, aka NAVA. This included a panel and interviews at San Diego Comic-Con with the goal of educating people about AI in Entertainment. NAVA even has a digital rider available for members and non-members to use on their website.

Related: SAG-AFTRA Outlines What Actors Cannot Do During The Strike: Get The Full List

Screen Rant spoke with Cissy Jones of The Owl House about artificial intelligence in entertainment. She explained the dangers this technology poses to actors, including liability issues, and how it threatens jobs across the entertainment industry. Jones also shared how NAVA is trying to put protections in place and how fans can help voice actors now.

Cissy Jones Talks AI In Entertainment

Screen Rant: We're talking a little bit about AI in entertainment, which seems terrifying. Can you tell me a little bit about the AI aspect of the SAG-AFTRA and WGA trikes and why that's such an important talking point for you guys?

Cissy Jones: Yes, so gosh, that's a huge question. We all know AI is here, right? We all know that technology does not moved backwards. Technology moves forward and that there's no stuffing the genie back in the bottle. So let me say that first and foremost, we know that technology is here to stay and rather than pretending it doesn't exist, we have to find a way to work with it because if we pretend it's not here, we're gonna get wiped out as a profession.

What we are personally asking for within the strike is number one active consent. So what we've seen in a lot of contracts that are coming through from both massive companies and small is that they will bury a clause in a 20 page contract on page 14, that gives them access to use our session recordings for whatever they want. However they want. Whenever they want. Literally, the clauses in perpetuity throughout the known universe in any technology currently existing or to be developed. I wish I was kidding. So, it's really not great. I think a lot of people, a lot of clients don't necessarily have the intent of using our stuff for AI. But the attorneys are putting this language in the contracts, to cover their bases for anything that could be developed. So that it becomes boilerplate and so part of our educational process, with the National Association of voice actors, is to not let this become boilerplate.

To call this stuff out in contracts and if someone is going to make a digital version of our faces, our voices, if they're going to take your writing and put it into a machine learning process, you need to be actively informed. They need to get active consent, which means, "Hey, Cissy, I'm going to take these sessions and create a digital version of you. Are you okay with that?" Yes [or] no. Right? Which we are not currently seeing.

The second thing is that not only large companies taking our voices, but individual companies are allowing people to upload anything they want and create whatever version of us they want without consent [and] without compensation. The only reason oftentimes, that we're learning about our voices being on these things is because our fans are seeing them and telling us, "Hey, I just heard Lilith Clawthorne say some real racy stuff. You might not want that out there." And so that's another form of consent. Please don't take my worka nd make me say things that I've never said, it's really not great. So that's part of it.

The next thing that we really need is control. So let's say I agree, "Sure, go ahead and make a digital version of my voice. I'm happy to have this double out there who can do work for me. Neat." I need to know what kind of projects that version of me is going to be working on. So for example, pornographic material, not interested. I have kids, I don't want my kids to hear that stuff and be like, "Mom, did you really say that?" I don't want that. Racist stuff, homophobic stuff, right? All of the classic telltale things. However, in addition to that, as a voice actor, as an actor, let's say I book a Toyota job, right? It's the unicorn, its the job everybody wants. National television union, Toyota job, great. I'm banking.

Let's say somebody takes my digital voice and puts it on a Honda ad. Well, in union contracts, we have something called exclusivity, which means if Toyota licenses my voice for their campaign, I am not allowed to do any other cars, they pay for the exclusivity of my voice to only work with them. But if somebody takes my voice without my consent, without my option to say yes, no, and puts it on a Toyota ad, I am now in breach of contract. I Cissy Jones am liable for whatever anybody makes my voice do. That can't stand. Right? You can see where it can get real dicey, real fast.

And lastly, I mean compensation, right? We've all read the story about the producers that wanted to scan the background characters for 100 bucks, and use their likeness in perpetuity throughout the known universe. What? Background actors first and foremost, really do not get a fair shake. That's also part of the strike is making sure that they get a little bit more parity. So they're already not well paid, and oftentimes treated very badly. And then to offer them 100 bucks so that they never work again. Where's the fairness in that?

It's easy enough to do with Voice Over. That's kind of what Duncan Crabtree-Ireland was saying on our panel, is that Voice Over is really the tip of the spear here, right? This is ground zero, it's really easy to take someone's voice. So are we going to let them do that? Or are we as humanity gonna step up and say, "You know what, I wouldn't be happy if someone did that to me. Maybe let's not do that to other people?" So that's a very long-winded answer.

I'll be honest, some of that had not even occurred to me, like the liable aspect of it is terrifying. And that hadn't even occurred to me. Is this already happening? Because it sounds like it's not a potential thing. But it's something that people are already actively dealing with.

Cissy Jones: I have not heard of a Toyota Honda type situation. But for non-union contracts, it's rampant. It's all over.

I had no idea that this was something that people were already doing. I mean, I knew that the strikes had to do with people not wanting it to happen. I didn't know it was something that's already actively an issue.

Cissy Jones: The scary part is there's a lot that we don't know, right? Again, half the reason I know that my voice is on some of these databases is because people have told me that they've heard it, but how do I know that my voice isn't being used in rural Iowa for a car campaign or local furniture shop? I don't know.

But also, even if that's not in breach, that's not fair. You can't take my livelihood and use it without any compensation, or at least notifying me and then compensation. I just don't see the ethics in that. Right? And so that's one of the things that NAVA has been working really hard on with SAG. We've been sharing all kinds of information together, we support one another, is how do we exist ethically, in voiceover with artificial intelligence?

It very much seems like WGA, SAG-AFTRA, NAVA are at the forefront of this conversation, but how does it affect just entertainment and animation as a whole? Because I've seen articles about them wanting to incorporate AI into casting and then with AI art being so rampant, I would assume it's become a thing with animation as well. So how is that affecting kind of just everything within this industry?

Cissy Jones: It is affecting everything within the industry. The thing to remember about AI is that it can be a very useful tool. I think it's great we have the opportunity to be like, "Oh, I'm stuck on a name for this character. Hey, ChatGPT? can you help me come up with something fun?" Or "I just want to punch up this drawing a little bit. Let's see what what comes out here." Or we have XYZ celebrity in our great big movie, and they're not available to come and do pickups. Maybe we'll pay them for the use of their digital double to have them say these lines, right? Or scratch. "I guess we'll pay Cissy to do scratch for this game and then we'll get her to come in live and record it when we actually need emotion."

Those are all useful tools and real world examples of how AI can be helpful. But when it's not helpful is when people are just taking it without compensation, without notification, without giving us any control whatsoever of what is happening with our art, which sounds very lofty, but our art is our livelihood. Right? So there needs to be an ethical application because just using it rampantly it's going to put a whole lot of people out of business.

What is the best possible outcome with the strikes and everything in regards to AI? Like what is the goal for the agreement in Hollywood?

Cissy Jones: I can't speak to the strikes in particular because I'm not on the committees that are doing all the negotiating. What we at NAVA want to see is published on our on our webpage navavoices.org/synth-ai/. Its mouthful. I know. Essentially, what we want is consent, active consent, right? Just like I spoke about. Control [and] compensation. What I would love to see is a union contract that says, we're going to create a digital version of Cissy Jones's voice. Cissy Jones agrees, great. Anytime somebody, a client comes to us this voice, Cissy Jones, I get a notification that says, "Hey, they want to use this for XYZ internal narration HR video. Yes, no?" Yep. Great. Neat, here's your compensation, it'll be deposited within seven days or whatever, right?

Anytime somebody uses that voice, I need to know I need to get paid. We also want to see things like safe storage and tracking, right? So that we can make sure that these companies are on the up and up. And we don't end up with the same streaming problem that we've got right now. Whereas nobody's sharing numbers, and we don't know how often a thing has been viewed. Those are some of the main tenants that we really, really want to see.

So with AI being used more as a tool, like you were talking about, what do you think is kind of the best way to keep that as a tool instead of taking over the humanity of art?

Cissy Jones: That's a great question. I would love to see projects have a certain percentage of live human artists, actors, writers, whatever. And then maybe 10% or less be AI generated. I would love to see something like that. Again, I'm not on the negotiating committees. I don't know what they're asking for. And they have to keep pretty tight lipped as they're in the middle of negotiations. I would love to see that. I would love to see, the thing is, everybody's scared. Right? Everybody's scared, except for the people that are making crazy money, right? They don't really care.

But for those of us who aren't making crazy money, every single one of us is vulnerable. So the more people that I have spoken with in the industry, whether it's reporters, or editors, or audio engineers, or actors, we're all freaking terrified. So if there's a way that we can safeguard this for all of us, everybody seems to be on board. But it takes all of us. And again understanding that the C suite executives might not be interested, but there are more of us than there are of them.

What can fans do to help support from outside of the industry?

Cissy Jones: Yes, thank you. First and foremost, I love my fans, we all love our fans, we would be nowhere without our fans. I cannot overstate the appreciation that we as an industry have for the people that support us. So let me just speak to them and say thank you, from the bottom of my heart for the people who are supportive of what's happening. Letting us know, when they see our voices on a website that we have not authorized is really helpful. There's been a whole thing over the last couple of weeks with the Nexus mods having Skyrim Digital's say things that are NSFW and people let us know. It wasn't the Skyrim actors going on finding their voices, it was one of the fans that alerted us that that was happening. So that is incredibly helpful. Thank you.

And some of these websites, particularly UBERDOC and I think FakeYou have been really responsive to actor takedown. So if we email them and say, "Hey, you do not have my permission, you do not have my consent to have my voice on your website. I don't know who uploaded it, but it was not me. I'm asking you to take it down. And please don't upload anything from me." They've been incredibly responsive. Others have not. Others have basically met us with the email equivalent of a middle finger, which is so nice. But people letting us know is great. Also, don't use them. If you see them and you know that it's not me. Please don't use it because it just perpetuates it. If you want to make a digital version of yourself, that's great. Do that all day and all night but don't don't use people who make a living doing this.

And lastly, call it out. We sincerely appreciate you telling us but there was an actress a couple of weeks ago who issued a really sweet notice on Twitter "Hey guys, please don't do this. I didn't say this. You're literally taking my livelihood from me and it feels really gross." And she got attacked and bullied to the point where she deleted her accounts. Now, I don't know if she'll be back on she's been through a lot personally over the last little bit. So maybe she just needed a break and that's great.

But don't stand for that crap, right? Most of these fandoms are really, really glorious, incredible people like The Owl House fans are amazing. And I would hope that if somebody sees that and sees either myself or Sarah Nicole or anybody getting flack for wanting our AI voice to be taken down, step up and say like, "Hey, no, that's not okay. You don't get to bully around on this, this is a really serious issue."

Well, I hope that I don't know that it works out, I don't have an answer for what I hope other than it stops being terrified. But I feel like that's not really going to happen.

Cissy Jones: Well, I will say, I have hope, because after NAVA published our framework for how we want to exist within AI, I was approached by a company and they said, "We want to build a company with these tenants, will you help us?" And I said, Yes. And I said, "If you disagree to any of the things that I bring forward, I walk." And they were like, "Great."

And they've been absolutely amazing with respect to understanding the importance of what we bring as artists as actors, wanting to safeguard our industry working with me to create a contract that benefits all of us, not just you know, the top of the company, but really, truly benefits all of us. We're still in stealth mode, we're getting a final couple tweaks in place, but it is an ethical actor first approach to utilizing artificial intelligence with Voice Over. And it gives me hope, truly.

Learn more about the SAG-AFTRA strike and NAVA's goals on their respective websites.

Source: Screen Rant Plus